[Archived phorum post from squ1.com v2 by Andrew]

Hi Hector,

To answer some of your questions:

1. To do a thermal analysis and get _reasonably_ close results, you don't have to model the entire building. If you consider the middle floors, and if all the floor plans are the same, you can reasonably assume that the temperature of the zones immediately above and below will be pretty much the same as in each modelled zone. Thus, you can change the floor and ceiling in each modelled zone to be PARTITION objects (however, see important note below though). A partition is assumed to be a completely internal surface, thus they are not checked for inter-zonal or solar gains. This effectively creates a thermal mirror in the ceiling and floor where there is no heat loss or gains.

Important Note:
Changing a FLOOR into a PARTITION can have other consequences, such as giving the zone a zero floor area. As internal gains are given in W/m2 floor area, this will mean no internal gains. To overcome this, change each floor back into a FLOOR whenever you do an interzonal adjacency calculation as this is when floor areas are calculated. Once calculated, simply close the thermal analysis window, change it back to a PARTITION and re-open the thermal analysis window - this should not trigger the 'geometry changed' flag. The ceiling can simply remain a PARTITION. The floor problem is a hassle I know, however we're working on a more logical system...

2. It shouldn't be too difficult to simulate cylinders filled with water if they are inside the building and do not get direct sunlight. Simply create a single flat surface as a PARTITION the height of the ceiling with a width equal to the diameter of the cylinder. Then create a new material with the combined properties of the water and whatever material the cyclinder is made out of. The thickness of this material will have to be chosen such that the width of the surface times the thickness equals 4 x PI x r2 (the cross-sectional area of the column).

If the columns are in direct sunlight, then ECOTECT will not track solar radiation through an aperture onto a partition (very few thermal analysis tools do this). You can however model them as part of the external envelope, however this will depend on the exact geometry of your building. If you need to look at direct gain, email me a copy of your model in its current form and I'll model something that will work for you. Not sure if I can compete with Caroline's animated images though

3. To model an internal heat source, simply add an APPLIANCE object to whatever zone you want it to be in (it must actually belong to this zone). Then edit its material to output the right amount of heat and assign it either an on/off time or a more complex schedule if you need to control its operation. If you use a schedule, make sure to assign a different primary and alternate material to define on and off conditions.

Hope that helps...

Regards,
Andrew

Dr. Andrew Marsh
Square One research Pty Ltd

[Archived phorum post from squ1.com v2 by Betina Martins Mogo]

Hi:

I am working in an open plan office buiding. For now I am planning to make only a thermal anaylsis.

1. I have a doubt regarding ceiling plenums. For multi storey buildings you recommend to turn the ceiling into a partition. My plenum is 2 feet high. Do I have to create a new material with that specific height? or do I have to create a new zone for the plenum? In the last case, should I have to make 1 zone for all the level and turn the bottom and the top parts of this new zone into partitions as well?

2. If I am simulating only one floor out of 10 that my building has. How do you recommend to model the space for the elevators? Should I make it like a box with floor and roof (of course treating them as partitions)? Or there is a better way?

Thank you

Betina

[Archived phorum post from squ1.com v2 by elizabeth]

Define the multy floor concerpt

[Archived phorum post from squ1.com v2 by Clarice]

Hi everybody,

I've read all posted mesages on this topic and I ended up confused about thermal modelling.
If I have a multistorey building, am I forced to change the floors and the ceilings of the zones that are in the middle of the building (generally the one's I'm evaluating) to partitions? If I don't do this, Ecotect will wrongly evaluate thermal calcs?

I got really confused ! Can anyone clarify this to me please?
This is really important as it seems I'm wrongly modelling when I want to perform thermal analysis.

Look forward to hearing from you

All the best,

Clarice

[Archived phorum post from squ1.com v2 by Andrew]

Hi Clarice,

Sorry - probably my fault for spreading confusion.

The best way to model a multi-storey building is to constuct all its zones, with all the ceiling objects adjacent to the floor objects of the zones above. This way ECOTECT will automatically work out all the various heat flow paths and solve things properly.

However, who has time to model an entire 50 storey building - especially when all floors are the same. Thus, it is possible to take a short cut - but that is exactly what it is - a short cut. Obviously it will be less accurate, however given uncertainties as to the exact U-value of particular walls and the like, the level of inaccuracy may be ok for the savings in time.

If you assume that the zones above and below will be _EXACTLY_ the same temperature internally, then there will be no heat flow through the floor or the ceiling. Thus, if we replaced the floor and ceiling with PARTITION objects, we would get the same effect, no heat flow though the floor or ceiling. This way we wouldn't have to model the zones above and below - we are essentially ignoring them. If we didn't make the floor and ceiling a partition, ECOTECT would assume that they are exposed to the outside air temperature and we would get incorrect heat flows.

You don't have to model multi-storey buildings this way, however you can if you only want some quick answeres in specific areas.

In the next version of ECOTECT, I am getting rid of the need to assign objects as PARTITIONS, I think the rule will be that if a surface is adjacent to another surface that is on a non-thermal zone - ECOTECT will simply ignore heat flows through that object. Thus you could model a single floor in a multi-storey building by simply creating large non-thermal zones immediately above and below it.

Hope that explains things a bit...

Regards,
Andrew

Dr. Andrew Marsh
Square One research Pty Ltd

[Archived phorum post from squ1.com v2 by clarice]

Hi Andrew,

I thank you very much for your reply but I'm still confused about thermal modelling because of the interzonal heat flow and the role of the partitions.
I'll try to explain the way I would model a multistorey building so that you can understand what is happening.

Let's consider a 10 storey residential building. The ground floor without any walls, only pillars used as a parking place, and from the second floor to the last one, 4 apartments per storey (typical Brazilian building).

1) I draw the pillars, as this is an open area - outside zone
2) I draw all the zones (each room of each apartment) in the storey immediatelly above the pillars - as these rooms will behave differently from the rest because their floors are directly in contact with the exterior zone.
3) I draw an intermediate big zone above this storey with its floor covering all the ceilings of the zones below it and with a hight equivalent to 4 storeys - this zone is substituting the 2nd, 3rd and 4th storeys
4) I draw the 5th storey in the same way as the one immediatelly above the pillar zone (all the rooms) as these zones behave differently because they are in the middle of the building
5) I draw another intermediate zone above the 5th detailled storey exactly as the one described in 3) - which will substitute the 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th storeys
6) I draw the last floor in the same way as the 5th (all the rooms) as these zones behave differently because they are on the top of the building - receiving direct sunlight
7) I draw a roof zone

Do I have to set every adjacent floor/ceiling (detailled zones ceiling/ big zones floors) as partitions? Considering only the 1st storey floors as "floors" and the last storey ceilings as "ceilings"? How about the ones (floors and ceillings) in the 5th detailled storey zones ?
How will I evaluate these middle building zones as I consider their adjacencies as partitions?

How about the adjacent walls that are parts of the detailled zones? Do I have to consider "walls" only the ones that are in contact with the exterior?
If I change interior walls, ceillings and floors to partitions, how can I evaluate interzonal heat exchanges? Wouldn't these zones be transformed into a big zone (subdivided by the partitions)?

What I'm trying to say is that basically I evaluate 3 storeys in a multistorey building, the first, one in the middle and the last - as I believe they have different thermal behaviours. Am I being "over-detailist"?

I really would like to know your impressions about this procedure and understand better the roles of the partitions in the model.

I thank you in advance for your patience in reading all this.

All the best,

Clarice

[Archived phorum post from squ1.com v2 by Andrew]

Hi Clarice,

What you describe sounds quite similar to models that the students use here at the School to experiment with loads and UK Part-L analysis. The following example shows a multi-storey office for which only the bottom, middle and top floors were actually modelled in detail.

Your 7-point description of the process is exactly right, apart from the fact that you do not actually need to draw in the intermediate zones - they are only really for visualisation purposes. You would get exactly the same results (if you follow the rules below) without them, for example in the following image of the same building.

To clarify your last three paragraphs:

As you do not know the internal temperature of the intermediate zones in your model, and you do not want to model them, you must make them NON-THERMAL zones. This means making sure that they have the crossed T in the zone list.

As you do not want to consider heat flow between the thermal zones and the intermediate non-thermal zones, we assume that they are exactly the same as the zones below, so if they are at the same temperature, there will be no heat flow. The only element type in ECOTECT for which heat flows and solar gains are ignored is the PARTITION. Thus any surfaces that are adjacent to these intermediate zones must be made into PARTITION objects.

In your case this is JUST the ceilings of the bottom floor zones, both the floor and ceiling of the middle zones, and the floor of the top zones. As you have drawn in the intermediate zones, make sure that the floor and ceiling of these two zones are also set to PARTITIONS to avoid mis-matched object error message during the inter-zonal adjacency calculation.

All other objects stay as they would normally be - this includes the walls of each zone. They are still walls between adjacent thermal zones for which temperatures have been calculated, so ECOTECT can determine the heat flow between them.

This is effectively saying that, for the middle floor zones, the only way that the external environment can affect them is through their external facades. Nothing _extra_ comes in through either the floors or the ceilings. If you had left the large intermediate zones as thermal, who know what temperature ECOTECT would have calculated for them, especially if they had no windows and no internal floors/ceiling/walls/mass to soak away any heat build-up.

-------------------------------------------------------------

There is however one VERY IMPORTANT TRICK that you have to play.

If you assign all the floors as partitions right from the start, none of your zones will have a floor area. Thus the internal gains that you may have specified as 15W/m2 will be multiplied by a zero floor area and give you zero internal gains. To avoid this, leave the floors as FLOORS until after you have calculated the interzonal adjacencies. Only then change them to partitions. This way the calculations will get the right floor area when calcuklating volumes and surface areas, but still treat them as partitions when it comes to the thermal analysis.

I have worked out a way to make this whole process much simpler, however I am programming and checking it now ready for the next version.

Hope that this clears up some of your confusion in the short term....

Regards,
Andrew

Dr. Andrew Marsh
Square One research Pty Ltd

[Archived phorum post from squ1.com v2 by clarice]

Hi Andrew,

Thank you very much for the quick answer!
I believe everything is almost cristal clear except for the fact that:

1) Just to confirm, I change the floors and ceilings (in red) to partitions after the interzonal adjacency calc but before thermal analysis? But I have to set the floors and ceilings of the non-thermal zones in the middle to partitions before the interzonal adjacency calc? Won't Ecotect pop up an error message because I have partitions in contact with floors and ceilings?
2) Do I need to model a roof zone if the last storey has just a flat ceiling without a traditional roof? I mean just the concrete + imperveous coating, no further structure with ceramic tiles?

I just have a final request for you and Caroline. Could you please include this explanation, with the above illustration, in the Ecotect help files? This is definitely a fundamental part of thermal modeling and it could be added to it as a "modeling multi-storey buildings" topic, for example.

Thank you again.

Regards,

Clarice

[Archived phorum post from squ1.com v2 by Debora]

Hi Clarice

I think I understend well what Andrew say... but I tried to do that (as I am working on a multy-storey building as well...) but I got completly different results (15? C of difference ! ) between the "traditional way" (with the same conditions on each equal floor ) and the short cut way (with no thermal zones below and above the studied zone (thermal zone) with partitions...

What exactly happens, looking at the Hourly gains, is that:
1) the Internal loads does not remain constant even if I change floor and ceiling into partitions after the interzonal adjacency calc. They change from 114531 kW into 24640 kW....
2) the inter-zonal loads change from -12600 Kw into -1266 Kw....

Any ideas about that ???!!!!

Just to answer to your questions... you have to change the floors and ceilings into partitions after the interzonal adjacency calc but before thermal analysis and you don't have to set the floors and ceilings of the non-thermal zones into partitions because they are not take into account during the interzonal adjacency calc.
About the roof zone, I have not understood very well the question... but in case of flat celing I just set his properties on the Material Library....

I am looking forward to hearing from you,

cheers,
Debora

Research & Development
ARCHI + I SPRL
9 rue J.Jordaens
B-1000 Brussels
Belgium
www.archi.be

[Archived phorum post from squ1.com v2 by clarice]

Hi Debora,

I haven't tested my thermal model yet as I'm working with some lighting and acoustics.
As soon as I do it I'll let you know.

But what I meant about the roof was that my last zone has only a flat ceiling. There is no roof above it. Just some coating to protect the concrete from the rain. So, I only need to model the last building zone assigning its top plan as ceiling, is that the way you do it?

Hope I could explain things better now,

Cheers,

Clarice

[Archived phorum post from squ1.com v2 by Debora]

Hi Clarice,

happy to hear from you !

I normally model the flat ceiling of the highest zone as a roof element (and not as a ceiling element ) and I simply assign to it the relative package (with coating included) which I can define on the Material Library under Roofs group.

Basically, the flat ceiling in the last zone is a roof itself.

Hope that helps...

All the best,

Debora

Research & Development
ARCHI + I SPRL
9 rue J.Jordaens
B-1000 Brussels
Belgium
www.archi.be

[Archived phorum post from squ1.com v2 by manal]

Hi there,

I am trying to model a 2-storey maisonette (Ground Floor+ First Floor). I am not sure if the way I have build up my model and carried out my thermal analysis is right as I am getting strange, illogical results for internal temperatures in winter. Please tell me if the procedure I followed is right or wrong:-

1- I built up the ground floor an divided it into two main zones (Living room and the rest of the floor) (Thermal zone)
2- I set a solid floor element to the floor slabs and a ceiling element to the top planes
3- I built up the first floor on top of the ground floor as one big zone (Thermal zone)
4- I assigned a floor solid concrete element to the lower plane of the zone
5- I assigned a ceiling element to the upper plane of the zone
6- I added the roof
7- I calculated Inter zonal adjacencies
8- I then, changed the ceiling of the ground floor, the floor slab of the first floor to partitions
9- I started the thermal calculation

That?s when I got really high internal temperatures in winter although my elements were built of advanced insulation standards (walls= 0.15 W/m2K, Floors 0.1 W/m2k, Roof= 0.08 W/m2K)

Having these results, I decided to model my building differently by modeling each floor separately to get results that are more realistic. The procedure I have followed is:

1- I have built the Ground floor again as two main zones ( Living room and the rest of the ground floor)
2- I have set a solid floor element to lower planes of the two zones and a ceiling element to the top plane of the two zones
3- I calculated the inter zonal adjacencies
4- I then changed the ceilings of the two zones to partitions
5- Started the thermal analysis

In this model, I got acceptable internal temperatures for the ground floor.

For the first floor:

1-have built the First Floor as one big zone
2-have set a solid floor element to lower plane of the zone and a ceiling element to the top plane of the zone
3- Added the pitched roof
3- I calculated the inter zonal adjacencies
6- I then changed the floor to partition
7- Started the thermal analysis

Again, in this case, I got temperatures that are more acceptable in winter.

I would like to know, which way should I model my 2-storey maisonette, as individual separate floors or as a complete building? What is wrong in the whole building modeling procedure I followed that lead to the strange results I have achieved?

Thanks in advance and waiting to hear ...

Regards,
Manal

[Archived phorum post from squ1.com v2 by Andrew]

Hi Manal,

I kind of follow your workflow, but the only real way to see what is going on is to see the model.

Any chance you could email it to us via support ???

That way I can check before shooting my mouth off about something completely irrelevant...

Regards,
Andrew

Dr. Andrew Marsh
Square One research Pty Ltd

[Archived phorum post from squ1.com v2 by manal]

Dear Andrew,

Thank you again for valuable correspondence.
I am attaching the three models in the e-mail address support.

The first model has the ground floor and the first floor simulated in one model.

The second model, has only the ground floor simulated by changing the ceiling elements into partion (and that's of course after the inter zonal adjacencies calculation)

The third model has only the first floor simulated by changing the floor element to partions (and that's of course after the inter zonal adjacencies calculation)

Note: I have changed the thermal lag values in some of my new created materials (wall+ Floor) to the thermal lag values I got from Opaque ( taking the value and excluding the negative sign). However, I do not think this is the right way to do it, as I have mentioned to you earlier. I still have not changed my newly created roof thermal lag for the same reason.

Thank you in advance and waiting to hear from you,

Regards,

Manal

Manal

[Archived phorum post from squ1.com v2 by manal]

Dear Andrew,

I am afraid that now even the second way I used for modelling the 2-storey maisonette (modelling each floor separetly) is not proving its success. The internal temperature in the first floor is around 4C in winter time( no heating system has been specified). The results of indoor temperature is quite un-expected especially for our maisonettes that have an advanced insulation standards.

I think there is something wrong that I do which results in the strange results and problems that I keep getting. As I have mentioned I am a new user; hence might be unfamiliar with some important issues in ECOTECT.

Can you please advice in the whole subject.

Regards

Manal

[Archived phorum post from squ1.com v2 by manal]

Dear Andrew,

I am afraid that now even the second way I used for modelling the 2-storey maisonette (modelling each floor separetly) is not proving its success. The internal temperature in the first floor is around 4C in winter time( no heating system has been specified). The results of indoor temperature is quite un-expected especially for our maisonettes that have an advanced insulation standards.

I think there is something wrong that I do which results in the strange results and problems that I keep getting. As I have mentioned I am a new user; hence might be unfamiliar with some important issues in ECOTECT.

Can you please advice in the whole subject.

Regards

Manal

[Archived phorum post from squ1.com v2 by manal]

Dear Andrew,

I am not sure whether you had time to like at my model or not yet. However, I was having a look at the model now ( the model that has the ground floor and the first floor together).

Looking at the zone management box, I just noticed that whenever I change the floor of the first floor and the ceiling of the ground floor to partions (after the inter zonal adjacencies calculation),the first floor area turns to zero (but there is a numerical value for the volume) and although I kept the floor and the ceiling elements as they are in the interzonal adjecencies and only changed them to partions when i started the thermal calculation, yet the floor area changes to zero!.

Could this be the reason for my strange results, which i doubt? Does it make a difference if the floor area turned to zero or as long as the volume is still calculated there is no problem?

I know I have bothered you with so many e-mails but I am really stuck here and can not find a reason for this.

By the way, what's meants by The Toal Area? There are three things: Total Area, Floor area and the volume.

Regards

Manal

[Archived phorum post from squ1.com v2 by Olivier]

Manal,

I am sorry I have not had time to respond you in time.
I had not seen your model but was wondering what could be the issue.
As Andrew noted, it can be difficult to assess the exact problem without looking into the model - and even then .

Something that came to my mind when reading your email though, was that there was no mention of any internal gain (such as occupants) nor HVAC system being used.
I am thinking outloud here, but I wanted to ask something:
When there are no internal gains whatsoever, isn't it normal to have internal temperatures almost as low as the outdoor temperatures no matter the insulation value of the walls? I am thinking that when there are no internal heating, the interior of the space will become similar to the outside conditions over time.
Can any one confirm this with me?

Olivier

[Archived phorum post from squ1.com v2 by manal]

Dear Oliver,

Well in reply to you e-mail. I have specified occupancy and internal gains (25 W/m2) for each floor i.e ground floor and first floor. I have tested both floors with and without heating systems. Lst's focus now in simulations with no heating system specified.
For the roof zone, of course i specified zero accupants and internal gains ( as it a non-habitable space).

The results in model one ( model one = ground floor and first simulated in one model), with no heating system specified, shows that the ground floor temperature in the living room zone (facing south) is around 33C and the rest of the ground floor zone (facing north ) is around 25 C ( 7C difference between two different zones t in the same floor that have no heating systems is quite irreasonable!!) and that's in London, 21st of December, the colderst day of the year! The first floor and the roof temperature on the other hand, in the same model, showed a temperature of around 2 C!!!

The second way I have simulated the building with each floor simulated separately, again specifying occupancy and internal gains for the ground floor and the first floot with no heating system. That's when I got these results:

First Model -Ground Floor Model:

1- Living room (southfacing )internal temperature is around 11 C, London, 21st of December.
2- The rest of Ground floor ( north facing) is around 10 C, London, 21st of December.

Note;The results for this model makes more sense to me...

The second model: First Floor

1-Internal temperature of the first floor and the roof zone is the same, 2 C.
2- The first floor area shows as zero (although I have calculated the interzonal adjecencies leaving the floor slab of the the first floor as a floor element and only changed it to partition after the interzonal adjecencies
and before the thermal calculation, as Andrew highlighted.
However, the program doesn't get this and puts a zero area for the first floor area; hence no internal loads are calculated (Again I specified 25 W/m2 as internal gains and 5 occupants for the first floor). Resulting in the first floor internal temperature equal to the roof temperature 2 C, which to me this is quite illogical, especially when the ground floor had already achieved internal temperatures as high as 10-11 C!!

A very airtight constuction ( 0.5 air changes, and advanced U-values standards specified for wall, floor and roof elements is expected to created internal air temperatures somehow higher than external air temperatures), this is what I think.....

I tried to answer your remark, and I hope my answer is clear enough and not very confusing, Oliver. Can you access my 3-model files that I have sent to Andrew? Or if you want I can attach them to you.

Please, if you can tell me anything that helps do not hesitate as all my modeling in Ecotect is now halted and postponed and I am waiting for help from you and Andrew to continue piles of simulations that need to be carried.

Thank you very much for feed back and still waiting to hear from you.

Regards.

Manal

[Archived phorum post from squ1.com v2 by Gwendolyn Kerschbaumer]

hi,
I am just starting to model a multi story building. I read Andrew's answers and I am wondering whether they still hold true, or whether the version I just got (in the last month) has modifications.
Basically I want to know how to solve the floor / Ceiling problem. Do I have to use the partitions method?
I want to build a 5 story multi apartment building. I would have liked to simulate apartments on the bottom in the middle and on the top floor.
thank you,
gwen

[Archived phorum post from squ1.com v2 by craines]

Hi Gwen.

Basically yes, the posts here are still applicable to the current ECOTECT version that is available v5.20(b). It is also unlikely that the fundamental modelling concepts described here will change much for v550 (the next major update due soon), or in fact anything until v6 of ECOTECT.

At least that is as much as I am aware of in terms of modelling methods and updates for ECOTECT

Regards,
Caroline

Caroline Raines
Square One research Pty Ltd

[Archived phorum post from squ1.com v2 by ilaria]

hi everybody!!! I have read the asks and the answer above, and I'm not sure to have understand everythink ! So, I want explane my problem! I have a multystore building but the stores are different in their zones and so I need to know in every store the internal temperature for differents analysis! I have draw the 3 store separately and after with copy and paste...I have place on top of the ground store the other stores! but, for to do the thermal analysis I have to put the grid and to assign materials! And so I have seen that , when I put the grid for the analysis...the grid is only one and is in the ground floor!! And so, even if I have the different zone in the other floor, and the different heith, how can i do for study the thermal analysis and put the grid also in the other floors??
And I have another problem: when I assign the materials to floors and to ceiling...If I have understand, I have to assign a material floor only to the ground floor, and the ceiling material only to the last ceiling! but....for the ceiling and the adjacent floor in the other flat....which material have I to do?? and, if on the last floor I have a roof, the ceiling material is the same?
I hope someone can me answer slowly....!! thank's soo much! Ilaria

[Archived phorum post from squ1.com v2 by Olivier]

Ilaria,

For your flats in between the ground floor anf the top floor, you will assign the floor and ceiling elements as partition so that there is no thermal flow calculated between one another. this technique assumes that every flat have pretty much the same thermal behavior.

As to the analysis grid, there is a way to assign one for each of your floor. Follow Caroline's recent post on Grid on Different Floors.

Hope that helps you.

Olivier

[Archived phorum post from squ1.com v2 by ilaria]

hi Olivier!!
tank you soo much for your quick answer!!!
I'm working on my progect but i have a doubt! for example, I have 2 zone, one on the top of the other; I want to assign the material: floor material, only to ground floor and ceiling material only to top ceiling! but, for the ceiling of the ground floor who is adjacent to floor of the first flat, I have to put for both elements ( ceiling and floor) the partition element? and if is like this...have I a double thickness( double partition ) for the horizontal frame or only one?
for the questions about grid on different floors I have ask to Caroline! but I have another ask for you!
I have a staircase and I have draw for it a zone in every flat and so, having 3 stores I have 3 "staircase zone" one on the top of the other! but I want to know ,for assign materials, if I have to put the partition elements also for floor and ceiling, like the other zone! because when I draw the staircase zone, I have also the ceiling and the floor but in the real situation...the zone in open on the ceiling to another zone! how can I do?
Thank you so much!! Ilaria

[Archived phorum post from squ1.com v2 by Olivier]

Ilaria,

Ecotect figures out that the partition of a ceiling is the same as the partition of the floor of the storey above, and counts only one floor/ceiling element. Smart eh?
For your staircases, I would probably assign the same: partitions on floor and ceilings. What you want is isolate one particular floor (the middle one, and assume the two have similar thermal behavior.
Another way to model your grid analysis is to create 3 different Ecotect files, all similar but with an analysis grid located differently for each case.

Olivier

[Archived phorum post from squ1.com v2 by ilaria]

hi olivier! tank you soo much for answer! I have another problem in my project! I have import from autocad a simple 3d for the site and in this one I have paste ma multystorey building for study the overshadowing in my site and the other obstruction from other building. In the autocad model I have put one horizontal plane in height 0 and over this one I have put the other solids on different height because the site is a little bit mountainous! I have export like a 3ds file and when I have open in ecotect all was ok!! but, when I have try to have the display shadows in daily sunpath...everithink is in shade and I can't see the shade inside, the build's shade on the ground and soo on!! everithink is grey!!! but, opening the openGL view...I can see everithink and every shade! and so I want to know if the problem is that I have import from autocad also the horizontal plane and so ecotect read this one like a zone, like a somethink who make shade!!! but the problem was that the site draw is particular and was difficult to draw in ecotect and assign like outside!!
Thank's too much and sorry if I have write about another subject here ...but I have not find the correct section!!
Ilaria

[Archived phorum post from squ1.com v2 by craines]

Hi Ilaria,

I dont think this will have anything to do with importing the geometry, perhaps instead just the placement of objects...
Hard to say exactly what might be wrong though, so if you could email your file to support (and perhaps to Olivier too -- Im sure he wont mind ), it would really help to see exactly what you are reffering too.

Regards,
Caroline

Caroline Raines
Square One research Pty Ltd

[Archived phorum post from squ1.com v2 by ilaria]

TanK's Caroline!!! but I tink the problem is this one and....I'm sure that also you can help me because maybe my problem is more simple than before!! now I have try with 2 zone! i have draw one zone with height 600 and on this ose I have draw another zone more height but more narrow!! I have make the dayly sun path and....also in this example everythink is in shade because also the zone more short make a shade and so on this one...I can't see the second zone too!!! but, if I delete the short zone, I can see on the floor (and inside the zone) the shade!!
maybe that there is a way in ecotect for differentiate the shade of one zone from the shade of the other zone! because if I have one little zone on the top of another big zone, I can't see the shade inside and outside because everythink is grey!! is there a way?? thank's! Ilaria

[Archived phorum post from squ1.com v2 by Olivier]

Ilaria,

Can you email me your model? It will make it easier to see what is going on then.

Thanks

Olivier

[Archived phorum post from squ1.com v2 by craines]

Perhaps the clue to what Ilaria wants Olivier, is in the Tag Object(s) As; Shaded function...?
Or perhaps the Highlight this zone checkbox in the Zone Settings, along with the Reverse Sort Shadows.

Let us know what you work out from seeing Ilaria's model...

Regards,
Caroline

Caroline Raines
Square One research Pty Ltd